【再生医療の未来│大阪・関西万博の目玉『iPS心筋細胞シート』】投資・経済のプロ、複眼経済塾・渡部 清二とエコノミスト・エミン ユルマズも驚愕！大阪大学・澤 芳樹教授「心臓病では死なない世界が来る」

【再生医療の未来│大阪・関西万博の目玉『iPS心筋細胞シート』】投資・経済のプロ、複眼経済塾・渡部 清二とエコノミスト・エミン ユルマズも驚愕！大阪大学・澤 芳樹教授「心臓病では死なない世界が来る」

We are visiting Osaka University.The reason why we are visiting Osaka University is that research that could become the centerpiece of the 2025 World Expo is being carried out here.We will speak to Professor Sawa for details.Thank you in advance. Dr. Masuzawa , what kind of research are you conducting here?

I have been working as a cardiac surgeon for 40 years, treating the heart and protecting lives, but especially when it comes to severe heart failure, where no further treatment can be performed. Heart transplants and artificial heart treatments have also begun in Japan , but the number of heart transplants that are needed

Is still not being performed in Japan. Since around 2000, we have been researching regenerative medicine for the heart in order to somehow help those lives that cannot be saved.So , as a clinician, you have actually performed many surgeries . I have been involved in the lives of tens of thousands of people.Including

The surgeries I performed, those performed by my subordinates, and those performed at related facilities, I have touched the lives of tens of thousands of people with heart disease over the past 40 years. Today we’re going to talk about what exactly these heart muscle cells are.Your heart moves automatically, right?The reason why these

Heart cells move regardless of your will is because they have this ability. There is a mechanism in which each cell does not work separately, but works in concert like an orchestra, and that’s how it works 100,000 times a day, 365 days.

This is a pump that pumps out 5L to 10L of blood per minute for more than 90 years.The pump is so sophisticated that it is the heart, and in healthy people, their heart continues to pump vigorously until they are 90 or 100 years old. When illness occurs, this movement

Becomes weaker. The ability to pump blood becomes weaker, which leads to heart failure.This causes swelling, reduces exercise ability, and makes you bedridden.And in the end, the world needs heart transplants and artificial hearts. This is now the standard as the final treatment , but the best thing to do is to completely replace

The patient’s heart by performing surgery with an artificial heart in order to restore its health . It will make you feel better, but I wonder if there is a future where we can somehow revive the patient’s heart or something like that

. We have been doing this for over 20 years, and recently we have been feeling a very strong response.The fact that we are visiting this laboratory today means that we can actually see something like that . I hope you feel a sense of hope. 　

Look at this. Is this some kind of microorganism or something? This is the heart cell in your body. It’s made from iPS cells and shaped to move with it. It’s powered by electricity or something. No, it’s not flowing to anything. It’s just moving spontaneously. This is a really amateur idea, but I’ve

Heard that human muscles move because electrical signals flow through them based on commands from the brain. But does this mean that nothing is attached to it and it moves?In the first place, what is stimulated by the brain and the peripheral nerves are

Moved by electrical signals are muscles called skeletal muscles.The heart muscle is also controlled by various nerves that move on its own. Basically, we are constantly moving while we are sleeping, so even if our limbs stop while we are sleeping, our heart is still beating, so it is called automatic ability, and we

Have the ability to move on our own.My father… He was told that his heart was only working at 20% , and that’s how he died, but apparently that’s because his muscles had already died from a previous myocardial infarction.

It seems that some or all of those muscles can be restored using this technique , so at least at this stage , it’s the first step, so they’re definitely trying to save the dying cells. Cells that die once do not come back to normal, so

By adding more cells like this, we call it cell replacement therapy, and the heart muscle really becomes richer and more energetic with these new cells. This is our ultimate goal. Is this actually being performed on patients? This is the type of treatment

You are using. Yes, we have treated 8 people with this treatment, and how exactly do you apply it to the heart? First, the iPS cells are differentiated into cardiomyocytes. Speaking of induction, the great thing about iPS cells is that they have the potential to become any type of cell, and

We have the technology to transform them into only myocardium. As I mentioned earlier , when cardiac muscle cells are formed, they move automatically, but they have proteins that act like electrical outlets, and cells and neighboring cells are electrically connected. And within these cells , there are cells that have the highest electrical potential,

Which would be equivalent to a conductor in an orchestra, and everyone moves in accordance with that cell.This is what everyone does. This has been the case since the beginning. Cardiomyocytes are cells that are produced from one’s own cells. No, these are now called iPS cells, which

Were created by Dr. Yamanaka and administered to humans. It’s made from cells that are said to be the safest, so unfortunately it’s not your own cells yet.I see.If someone has a heart that needs help right away, I’ll be ready to respond even if I don’t take cells from that person.

Is that possible? Yes. So we prepared this cell sheet, opened the chest a little bit, and pasted it on the surface above the heart.What ‘s amazing about this is that it’s a protein that acts like an electrical signal outlet, but it’s a glue protein. There is also

Glue that sticks.At first it sticks to the inside of the culture plate, but when you peel it off, this is what happens.When you put it on top of the heart, the proteins in the glue also stick to the surface of the heart. It moves with the heart, and

The blood vessels that are electrically connected to the heart connect with each other and assimilate into new tissue. That’s the technology. If you leave it alone, will it continue to move? Or is it somewhere? I guess something will happen . After all, it keeps moving for about two weeks.It moves while producing

Its own energy , but when that energy is depleted , it stops moving.This pink liquid actually contains nutrients and oxygen inside it. When it’s transplanted, it spreads little by little into the original tissue.When it’s transplanted, it sticks tightly together, blood vessels grow,

Electrical outlets are connected to each other, and if it’s stretched over the heart, it’s the same as the heart. It is said that it moves. This has already been shown in animal experiments.It’s amazing.Even if there was a theory that heart cells move, why

Would you take out so many cells and culture them?What made you want to make them ? Were you able to do it? That’s the most important thing, right? I had the opportunity to meet many different scientists. In 2000, we met

A professor at Tokyo Women’s Medical University called Dr. Mitsuo Okano, who was an engineer, and he had a technology that allowed cells to peel off onto a sheet just by changing the temperature. When I saw his description, I thought it was

The right one, and immediately began joint research.In order to accumulate the technology, I started the treatment using my own patient’s own cells, but in 2007 Yamanaka Professor Ishikawa established iPS cells, and from 2008 onwards, the same cell sheet

Technology was used to transform cells into cardiomyocytes made from iPS cells, resulting in something like this . The evidence that has come up is that proteins are electrically connected and begin to move together, and they move in a way that is emphasized.I

Think this is what science is right about. What will you become in the future ? What kind of things do we want to do in the future? I think the ultimate goal is to activate the heart muscle, and in the end, we

Aim to create a new heart, but for a while while I’m still alive . I don’t know if I can do it, but I guess you could call it a dream technology.That’s why when I started this 20 years ago,

It was impossible to say that this was possible at the same time that Dr. Yamanaka started his research, and from the new iPS cells established by Dr. Yamanaka to our joint research that led to myocardial cells, they evolved

Rapidly over a span of about 10 years. You mentioned earlier that this technology is the only one in the world , but the World Expo is coming up in 2025,

And I think it will be an opportunity to show it off to the world.I wonder how you feel about it. Originally, when I was in the third year of junior high school , I performed at the 1970 Osaka Expo. I was a boy scout.I see.The hand signal troupe performed at the

Expo.I was a junior high school student at the Expo, and I’ve been there over 10 times.I was really inspired by the fact that the world changes with time. Later, when Osaka University moved here, we looked at the Tower of the Sun every day.With the World Expo still in our minds

, we also had to perform heart surgery on tens of thousands of people. I felt a lot of regret at the loss of many people’s lives, and decided to reconsider the importance of life, so I started a general incorporated association that creates social innovation called the “Inochi Mirai Project” and started social activities

. The Tokyo Olympics had just been decided , so we briefly talked about whether it would be a good idea to hold two World Expos in Osaka if the Olympics were to be held twice in Tokyo, and from then on we started making proposals, and the ideas just kept coming

. This was accelerated, and when the Expo was finally decided upon, the theme was “Designing a Future Society that Brightens Life.” I think that one of the reasons for that theme was your suggestion. In 2014, we created the Life Future Project and immediately held a symposium, so it

Was interesting to see that it was featured in the Nikkei Shimbun! I wrote about it in that symposium, so I said out loud that there should be an expo, and my friends gradually started talking about valuing life . Now

That the word “future” has been included in the word, and the place has been prepared for what to propose in that context, that’s right.In 1970, the main theme was moon rocks , but that’s a bit rude. In other words, it wasn’t a stone that stood in line for 4 hours, but

It was a moon rock, so what should I focus on this time? Everyone has been looking forward to it , and it’s easy to understand when you see it. It actually works, and as I said earlier, there are no seeds or tricks.With

This, I can change the culture medium again for a week without making any changes, and my staff has created a technology that will make this work for a long time. We have to make it every week and bring it with us , but this is definitely life, and it feels like it’s alive

. Just by looking at it, it looks like some kind of biological life form, but it’s not at all. However, what we think about is that cells are the smallest units of life. Cells are quite intelligent and strong, so when cardiac muscle cells differentiate, they have an electrical outlet

And move together. As I’ve said many times before, this is science, and it’s interesting that the evidence of science is reproducible . You can make it as many times as you like. Of course, not only Japan but

People all over the world really need this, so the Expo is a good opportunity to spread the word to the world.I think we were able to exhibit this at the G20 in 2019, and it just so happened that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs at that time Considering that Minister Taro Kono

Took a photo of this and tweeted it, and there were 1 million tweet responses from all over the world, I wonder if everyone wants to see this.Can I tweet it? ( (laughs) Please stop for a moment. It’s already before the Expo (laughs) That’s right. I saw this before the Expo

, and it’s amazing, so when we thought about how to display it, for example, we could make it a little more like a heart, or make it a little more realistic, and our team was working on various things. I have fully conveyed

The greatness of these iPS cells, but what do you think about the future of medical care ?Yes, I have been working on this for 40 years, and since 40 years ago and about 10 years ago, there has been innovation, or rather, new things. Technology comes into play.When

We became doctors, we didn’t even have the CT scans, MRIs, and ultrasounds that we take for granted today . As diagnostics progresses, surgery also progresses, and the earlier the diagnosis, the sooner we can take action , and as we continue to evolve, we are able to rapidly treat patients with catheters

, and regenerative medicine like this is emerging. In the future, I believe that new breakthroughs will occur every 10 years at an extremely innovative rate. So now there are expectations for dementia as well, and cancer is

Becoming more and more curable with immunotherapy, and I’m thinking that there will be a world where no one will die from heart disease.My dreams are getting bigger and bigger. The time will definitely come, sir. What you say is very persuasive, and

I can look forward to a very bright future. It was a great story , thank you very much.

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「複眼流 投資家道中ひざくりげ　大阪編スピンオフ－大阪大学特別編－」
The spin-off version of “The Investor’s Walk Around Japan”
ゲスト：大阪大学 心臓血管外科 教授 澤 芳樹氏
出演：複眼経済塾 渡部 清二氏、エコノミスト エミン ユルマズ氏
アシスタント：井上 綾夏氏

〈目次〉
00:00　OP：大阪大学 澤 芳樹教授について
01:37　心筋細胞について：心臓は細胞のオーケストラ
03:37　『iPS細胞から作製した心筋細胞シート』は自発的に動く
04:39　渡部さんの質問「筋肉は脳からの電気信号で動くのでは？」
05:26　エミンさんの質問「この技術で弱った筋肉が戻ってくる？」
06:28　渡部さんの質問「どういう形で心臓につける？」
07:50　井上さんの質問「(患者から)細胞を摂らなくても事前に準備ができる？」
08:55　渡部さんの質問「(IPS細胞から作った心筋細胞は)どれくらいの期間動く？」
09:20　エミンさんの質問「実際に移植したらどうなる？」
09:43　渡部さんの質問「(IPS細胞から作った心筋細胞は)どうやって出来たんですか？」
11:16　渡部さんの質問「(研究が進むと)どうなっていく技術なんですか？」
12:06　井上さんの質問「Expo2025 大阪・関西万博で”お披露目”、意気込みは？」
13:44　万博テーマ【いのち輝く未来社会のデザイン】の裏話
14:40　『iPS細胞から作製した心筋細胞シート』はExpo2025 大阪・関西万博の目玉に
16:05　世界中の人々が必要とする技術
17:10　井上さんの質問「これからの医療の未来について、どうお考えですか？」
18:19　澤 芳樹教授「心臓病では死なない世界が来ると思っている」

■「投資家道中ひざくりげ」YouTube再生リスト

■第1話熊本～TSMC工場建設で沸く熊本県の「水」をめぐる旅

■第2話熊本～復興進む熊本城から田原坂、山鹿・八千代座への旅

■第3話大阪～世界で一番古い会社と江戸時代に生まれた先物取引を辿る旅
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-KpjqN4DKo　
■第4話大阪～1970から2025へ、万博の歩みと未来を巡る旅
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG8pGBzqikg　
■第5話山形庄内～本間家と、鶴岡サイエンスパーク

■第6話山形庄内～刀を鍬に替えて。19代酒井忠順氏出演！

■番組ガイド

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